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'The White Lotus': Creator Mike White, cast talk of Season 3
When the 54-year-old creative genius actor-turned-writer-director Mike White created the satirical comedy anthology TV series, "The White Lotus," he was not ready for all the success and critical acclaim that would be showered on him and the series.
Now in its third season, the pressure is on.
We interviewed White and some of the cast members – Leslie Bibb (Kate), Carrie Coon (Laurie), Walton Goggins (Rick), Sarah Catherine Hook (Piper Ratliff), Jason Isaacs (Timothy Ratliff), Lalisa Manobal (Mook), Michelle Monaghan (Jaclyn), Sam Nivola (Lochlan Ratliff), Parker Posey (Victoria Ratliff), Natasha Rothwell (Belinda), Patrick Schwarzenegger (Saxon Ratliff), Tayme Thapthimthong (Gaitok), and Aimee Lou Wood (Chelsea) - at the Four Seasons Hotel and they shared the challenges they encountered, working with White, handling some delicate scenes among others.
Mike White (Creator-showrunner-director)
In season one, you were eager to explore class and culture. In season two, you explored sex and gender politics. What themes were you eager to explore in this season, and how did Thailand as a setting help you facilitate those explorations in the writing process?
It felt like we had to try to focus on something new. I was thinking that it'd be cool to do something about religion, God, and spirituality, just because. And then going to Thailand. It's a Buddhist country. I'm from L.A. I was whatever, L.A., like a nervous breakdown. I had my self-help Buddhist, years. I'm still having them. There are a lot of Buddhist concepts that I thought would be interesting to explore and would be fun. Give the show new places to go with different kinds of stories, and Thailand seemed like the perfect backdrop for that because it is Buddhist and there's something about the culture there, too, some chaos that Westerners go to.
Thailand is a place where someone can hide, escape and assume a new identity if they want to, which we don't want to spoil upcoming episodes. But a certain character does reveal that that was his journey. Tell me about that interplay between spirituality, but also there's like a lasciviousness too: the partying, the sex. There's an interesting binary going on.
What you're talking about has been something that keeps coming up in the show, and in this one, it definitely is more made explicit, which is people wanting to be their ideal self and to be the best kind of animal creatures that they can be. There's this antic force that keeps pulling them back out to monkey land. Trying to explore that. Thailand is a very complex country with so much going on. But it really does have all the, you know, all the temples and this spiritual dimension. But then it is known for Bangkok and the wild nights so it felt like that would be a great canvas to explore those themes because people either go there for one or the other or a mixture of both and so we wanted to do that in a way that felt honest, hopefully authentic in some way and capture what the vibe really is.
And you did very beautifully, and you mentioned monkeys, of which there are many. Tell me about capturing the native wildlife and interplaying that with the themes that you've just described, because they're absolutely beautiful. But tell me about the narrative function of the animals this season.
We've had monkeys for some reason. We are kind of monkeys. So, in the first season, there's some monkey stuff, and like, the hooting in Cristo's score, it's like there are monkeys. Monkeys are a kind of motif. Obviously, there are monkeys in Thailand and the hotel that we chose have a lot of monkeys. In Koh Samui, they used to use monkeys to harvest coconuts. So, like they have monkey statues all throughout. So, it became a motif that was fun to explore. How we shot them though, PETA does know, and they asked that we just go out with a second unit and shoot them. There were no trained monkeys. We just literally captured them in situation basically.
Like a documentary crew. They're very beautiful. Extremely beautiful.
They're really cool. They showed up, like we put a camera on, and they were ready to have their moment. So, we got lucky that way.
One of the biggest excitements about this season, at least for me, is the character of Belinda (portrayed by Natasha Rothwell) coming back. Tell me about what excited you about that prospect. But also, there's always a worry about bringing back someone who maybe wasn't naturally part of your initial idea. So, tell me how you chose to bring her back, but also what excited you, how did you want to do it that made sense for her and sense for the story?
We were sad that Jennifer (Coolidge) died in the last episode, and there was hoped to keep. How do we keep her alive in some way? I had this idea that maybe by bringing Belinda back, we could do that. People were bummed by Belinda's final moments in the first season where everybody's off and she's still working at the hotel and her dreams were dashed. Working with Natasha was like a dream. She's the best, literally. It was fun to maybe give Belinda another chapter, and work with Natasha again.
What are you proudest of having executed for this season and most excited for fans to experience when they watch it?
Honestly, we just locked a picture on the finale two days ago, and you're looking at somebody who has just crossed the finish line of the hardest race he's ever run.
Did this season feel harder than the previous two, in different ways?
It was harder because the show's longer, it was more. There's more of the show, more characters.Thailand was a beautiful place to shoot, but it had a lot of challenges. The writer's strike was in the middle of it. It's just a lot going on in my life, too. It takes over your life - two years of your life.
I feel proud to be just sitting here, to have gone through it. Because there were days when I felt I could die today?
I'm proud that I got through it. That's just my own personal pride. I've never worked with this kind of scrutiny. Like most of the time I have this movie out! Hey guys! I have the movie out! You're trying to get a little attention for your thing and that's hard in its way. All of the pressure of it and to feel like we did something that has a reason to live that isn't just trying to fill the machine, I feel like I put my heart into it. Now to have people interested in it, and we're excited for it to come out. It's super. It feels like I'm in a dream. I'm very pleased.
Natasha Rothwell (Belinda)
It was very authentic. I had spent a year in Tokyo in my 20s, but I'd never been to Thailand, and this was my first time there. And one of the things I learned when I was there, which was really powerful, was that Thailand has never been colonized. And to be shooting and working in a country that isn't constantly trying to heal from historical trauma, you feel that lightness, you feel that acceptance, you feel that peace. So, it was really wonderful to be there, to experience a place like that.
Going back to season one, two and now three, I feel, maybe I'm wrong, but the, for lack of a better word, the queerness of Jennifer Coolidge's character, it's almost like it's your time now to shine, be in the spotlight, and maybe play that kind of character that the viewers are drawn to. We're not even sure how she's going to react. She feels sometimes a bit awkward. Your character is, in a way, the center of what's happening in the resort this year. Do you feel that way and is that something that Mike told you from the get-go? Because again, Jennifer was not on board this season?
No, it wasn't my intention to be possessed by Tanya McQuoid. But I do think that we will get to see Belinda outside of her work uniform. She's able to be a guest. When people travel, they often try on versions of themselves that they may not otherwise. Belinda is trying to figure out what her vacation personalities are. I don't think she's someone who gets to do that often. I'm so grateful to Mike for bringing Belinda back because I do think it is a love letter to Tanya in a way. Her spirit lives on, if not in a direct impression. But her desire to want something a little bit better.
Michelle Monaghan (Jaclyn), Carrie Coon (Laurie) and Leslie Bibb (Kate)
Carrie Coon My husband has a quote in one of his plays where he says, "New friends are better than old friends." And I guess I parted ways with mine when I was around 7 or 8 because I don't have these female friendships from youth. So that was actually kind of unusual for me. My female friendship journey has started much later in life. And so, I think a lot of it has devolved into artifice. I think any time you're not keeping up with your relationships that you run the risk of that. That can happen in your marriage. You know, if you're not seeing each other enough.
And we were joking that if these women had walked into the villa and said, listen, this is what's going on with me right now and started off in this honest and authentic way, then it would have been a very different vacation. But that's not what happened. Everyone's pretending. And I'm afraid everyone can relate to pretending to be living an extraordinary life, whereas everyone's actually feeling left out.
Leslie Bibb It also feels like you. It requires a great deal of vulnerability, which is very hard to do. And also, who you were, when, because we, the three of us, when we all got cast. Somebody asked us and we were like, it feels so intimate, your relationship. And we were the first ones to shoot. Like we got to Thailand first. We shot all of our villa scenes. We were all shot out of a cannon at the same time together. And we started a text thread with all three of us. We were sharing childhood photos and what age we were. We all agreed on our back story. So that was our diving board with which we jumped off into the swimming pool of The White Lotus.
But I think who you were when you were growing up and who you've become can be very different people. And living your life unapologetically. And even though you may be very different like these three women are, for me, I knew that the gaze of - for Kate, the gaze of Laurie and Jaclyn - validated her. I mean, and she loves that Jaclyn is an actress. She does love that. She loves it. She's very exciting for her. But I think she feels her most seen when she's with these women, but yet she's also too scared to say, Will you still love me if you know who I am right now? And can we still love each other if we have some differing views? Is it more important to have relationships, to have that foundation where somebody really knows you? Or is it better to just have new friends and it's interesting.
Michelle Monaghan I really think that it's a testament to these unrealistic expectations that we have for each other and the way that we've been socially conditioned to constantly judge ourselves, to be competitive with ourselves and one another, and always looking at each other and ourselves and saying, Am I enough? Can I be doing it better and is the grass always greener?
And I think that you see these women come together, really putting their best feet forward. And this slow boil starts to happen, and you start to see that slow reveal and that unraveling of women trying to defend their life's choices. And really try to be perceived as having this perfect life when really, they're just going through their own lives and their own vulnerabilities.
Lalisa Manobal (Mook), Tayme Thapthimthong (Gaitok), Walton Goggins(Rick) and Aimee Lou Wood (Chelsea)
Tayme Thapthimthong Gaitok and Mook have been childhood friends. They both grew up on the island. Gaitok himself has never left the island. He's very local. He's always had a little crush on Mook. I don't think he's very sure if Mook has a crush on him or not, but he, I think he's thinking probably not. But that's where the fire comes from, and he is nervous to sort of like, should I tell her or not because we've been such good friends for such a long time?
In your character, Lisa, does she know how he feels? Is she sort of shy? It's hard to tell because she's a very sweet girl, but it's kind of, I can't tell if she's been flirty or just mysterious. What do you think?
Lalisa Manobal I think she was shocked a bit when Gaitok said that. And I just feel like she's more like just being a best friend with him, being good friends, family friends. So, she didn't really think of him in that way. But when he told her that, she was just like, okay, but you know what? Let's go on a date first and let's see how it will go.
Lalisa, I know you are a Thai rapper and a member of the Blackpink band. And this is your acting debut. So, can you talk about that experience?
There's a lot of fun things. I remember my first shoot. It was with Aimee and Walton. I was so nervous. I don't know what to do. And I have to speak in English. It's not my first language at all. But you guys helped me a lot, they helped me a lot. I really had fun doing this. And yeah, in the future I want to do this more.
Walton and Aimee, what is the core of these folks' attraction to each other? Why do they have this yin yang, dynamic between them and what is the connective tissue that brought them together?
Walton Goggins What brings anybody together? There are no words, really to explain their connection, like on paper. They probably wouldn't go together, but I think that there is a space between these two people when they look at each other, that they're looking through one another. I have in mind how they met. I think they've been hanging out together for about three years. Rick is not the kind of person to go up to and meet someone at a bar. I think Chelsea probably is more that person. And it was two minutes into a conversation of, why are you talking to me? Then they realized that there was something really special there. He's very hurt and working through a lot of traumas.
So, they met in a different space and time and with the time that we had to tell that story, it was very important to Aimee and me to establish that soul connection. And Aimee said it better than anybody. It's like the beginning of our day is really tough, but the end of our day is where there's space for love and connection. And some of those things are intangible. Like you can't really describe them. You can't put words to it.
Aimee Lou Wood It was so fun because, like, I love Esther Perel and everything like that. I'm really into looking at dysfunctional relationships and working out. But it was so good to just not have any, to not, just put judgment aside completely and be totally in her mindset of like, He is my soulmate.
The cosmos did bring us together. That is absolutely true. So even if there's evidence maybe pointing towards another conclusion, she knows. It's like a deep, deep knowing that no one can mess with. And I think we realized that it's always at breakfasts that they're most tetchy with each other. And then by the end of the day, they're always regulated.
Jason Isaacs (Timothy Ratliff), Parker Posey (Victoria Ratliff), Patrick Schwarzenegger (Saxon Ratliff), Sam Nivola (Lochlan Ratliff) and Sarah Catherine Hook (Piper Ratliff)
Speaking of the Ratliff family, it's so interesting. In a typical Mike White fashion, there's such a propensity to draw these kinds of characters with broad "eat the rich" strokes where they're sort of deplorable and so easy to hate, and that is not the case. No, I'm setting up the counterpoint to that. You are, in fact, very loving and very endearing and actually very much care about each other, which I think is, again, the Mike White genius. What struck each of you? Maybe, Parker you can start about being meaningful in terms of the way Mike drew each of you in these characters because they are silly, they are eccentric, they're over-the-top, but they really do each have heart. So, I'd love for you to talk about that.
Parker Posey That's so true, and I love to see that in writing. You usually see it in plays where you can bring a lot of dimensions to great writing. So, Mike is like a Chekhov person. I don't know how he can get such an ensemble with these archetypes, and then it's up to us to try to layer it all underneath it.
With playing a family, families are so much about chemistry and energy, and we met a few times on Zoom and then it just kind of took shape.
Did any of you know each other before this?
Patrick Schwarzenegger Well, Parker and I worked together on "The Staircase" for HBO. So, we got to, we didn't have many scenes like really opposite each other, but we were in the courthouse together, so we got to work.
Patrick, your character, we try our best to like him. We're not trying not to judge him, and he makes it very difficult. But we see that he cares about his family. He works for the family business. He's very driven and shouldn't apologize for that. And he also is casting his own shadow on his siblings who are like, Dude, leave us alone. Like we're our own people. Like we're thoughtful and quiet and introspective. But tell me how you found his humanity without again turning him into this overgrown frat boy that really gets quite tired quickly in terms of a narrative?
Patrick Schwarzenegger I think that really just comes down to Mike White. I was doing what Mike wanted and what was on the page. At first when I was reading it, I was nervous about that. Was he a one dimensional, just a frat boy douche or whatever you want to call him? But it was really important from Mike's side when we started to collaborate on the project and work on this character, he wanted him to be that frat southern douche guy, but also really someone that you would laugh at and enjoyed watching on the screen and that he had a little bit of a character arc in that.
And like you said, there's humanizing qualities that he really does love his family. He really does care about his brother and his sister. He just doesn't know how to maybe necessarily articulate that, or he doesn't have the best set of ideals or values of what make a man or make a successful person. But he does try, and he is a character that Mike, that was one of the things Mike always told me is, I don't want him to just be someone that everyone hates. I want them to laugh at him and like him and enjoy him and not see this weird turn that happens with us happen. It's Mike's words and Mike's character arc and stuff like that.
Sarah Catherine and Sam, your dynamic with each other is very sweet. They seem like a refuge for each other amidst kind of the gregariousness and loudness of the family. What aspects of their relationship are related to you and, if you do have siblings, did that feel familiar and how much did you bring that into the role? Maybe start with Sam.
I think we are sort of a refuge for each other. But I think what is sort of interesting about the family is that we're not necessarily that close with one another, at least the three siblings going into this vacation. And then it's really like a sort of petri dish. You just plop us into where we have to be so close. We're sharing a room.
And your character, Sarah Catherine, you're on your own special journey spiritually, trying to break away, but you don't want to disappoint your family. So that's an interesting theme too. Tell me how, if at all, you can relate to this journey as a young person making her way into the world.
Talking about the sibling aspect, it's funny, I really relate to Piper in a lot of ways. I'm actually the middle girl between two boys in real life, so I kind of was like, Am I being punked? Like, did he know I exist? I'm also from Alabama. Like, I'm a Southern girl and have always been interested in spirituality. I'm just so grateful to have been able, and I love these people so much. Like it really was such a joy to work with every single one of them.
Jason, back to you and your incredible accent work. And my biggest pet peeve when I watch Southerners or Southern accents is that they all sound the same. But that accent is very distinct. It's distinct to the region, to this guy.
Jason Isaacs Well it's Durham, North Carolina. So, I went, and I looked at all the representatives who represented that place, and I found the town mayors.
That's why when Parker wanted to name a particular person who I know, she's right that I had someone in my headphones, but I had a bunch of people because there are some vowels that are very specific to Durham that are kind of anomalous. And you're right, I have friends in the South who hate it when actors generalize a generalized wash of Kentucky Fried Chicken accents.
The next question is for Jason, Patrick and Sam. I would like to commend the cast and Mike White for the equal opportunity nudity in this season. Usually, it's only the actresses who are asked to do nude scenes, but in this show, Patrick, Jason and Sam do their share of nudity. So, Patrick, if you can also talk about what I read that you plan to screen this show for the family, but you joked that there will be scenes where you may have to temporarily leave the room. So, this is for the three of you.
Patrick Schwarzenegger Yeah, my whole family is coming to the premiere tonight, so we'll see how that goes. They don't know anything.
One is pretty safe. We actually did film some other things in episode one that didn't make the end cut, but there's some uncomfortable conversations between us in the bed that are a little weird to show in front of your family. But I think that episode five and six, there'll be sometimes that I take some bathroom breaks when the family, or maybe I won't watch that episode with, I don't know, we'll see.
But they're super excited. I just put a lot of trust in Mike. I know we said that with the script before, but with this process, doing certain nudity stuff is, it's different when it's a writer or director or someone that you don't know or don't trust or haven't seen their work. But you know what Mike has done with it in the past seasons and how he always loves to push the envelope and continue to excite, but also suspense and towards the consumers and to the viewers. I didn't have any hesitation towards it but go ahead.
Sam Nivola This was the first nude scene I've ever done. It was my first time kissing anyone on camera ever. And, of course, that comes along with a lot of like, fear and anxiety. I'm already anxious about just acting in general. Then you have to do it naked. It's fuckin intense. There are few people that I would trust more with my footage of my buttocks than Mike White. I think he made us feel so comfortable.
Jason Isaacs I'm horrified that you asked that question because I didn't know I was naked in the thing. I'm very upset by that. I don't remember that day at all. The whole thing's a, no, no. The truth is, it wasn't Mike it was, it's in my contract. I insist on it in every show now.
The open bathrobe clause.
Jason Isaacs Right.
That's in all of your contracts.
Jason Isaacs But I'm done now, so enjoy it while it's there.
All right. Thank you. That was great.
—MGP, GMA Integrated News
