Ceej Tantengco-Malolos on the progress and pain in women's sports

Howie Severino talks to Ceej Tantengco-Malolos, a leading advocate for female athletes and host of the ground-breaking podcast, “Go Hard Girls.”

Ceej describes the impact of Olympic gold medalist Hidilyn Diaz and US basketball star Caitlin Clark, while bemoaning the lack of professional opportunities for women to play in the Philippines.

Braving the online backlash, she has famously called out the objectification of women athletes, misogyny in sports, and violence against women.

She also talks about working in the lion’s den of the PBA, a league she is influencing in her job as a social media producer.

HOWIE: Magandang araw po. Howie Severino muli na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span. Ang guest natin ngayon ay si Ceej Tantengco-Malolos who has been a compelling and influential voice advocating women athletes and fairness in sports, among other hats. She's a children's book author, a social media producer for the PBA team Meralco Bolts. She does a history podcast in addition to her groundbreaking Go Hard Girls Podcast, her podcast about women athletes.

She's also a former colleague at GMA Network some years back and she's now a producer and manager-leader at PumaPodcast, a leading podcasting company. Magandang araw sa 'yo, Ceej. Great seeing and talking to you again. Congratulations on all your achievements.

CEEJ: Oh, thank you so much. It's so nice to be here. You're my first boss and I have so much, you know, every time I think of those years back in 2012, I'll always... I don't know, it makes me so happy whenever I think of that time.

HOWIE: Well, thank you. You've come a long way where I'm not going to take any credit for your development and where you've gone but it's been really pleasing for me to be following your career and, you know, listen to you, speak about your causes.

PROGRESS IN REPRESENTATION OF WOMEN IN SPORTS    

HOWIE: But you have various hats, Ceej. I just mentioned some of them but we'll stick today to sports and women in sports. You know, you do this podcast Go Hard Girls and you also do a lot of public speaking, you speak out, you've also written for websites about sports, about women athletes. You know, there's always both a half full as well as a half empty point of view of things.

So the half full point of view about women's sports now is that they're having a moment. In particular, women's basketball in the US has become a phenomenon as we know. Caitlin Clark, almost by herself, has kind of elevated the game there and sold out arenas. She's a women's basketball player sa US.

And here in the Philippines, our first Olympic gold medalist was a woman, si Hidilyn Diaz. And then last year, the women's football team got the whole country behind them. They gave us a lot of excitement at the World Cup. Every day, something about women's volleyball, here in the Philippines, crosses my Facebook feed. So sometimes you forget that there's men's volleyball.

But anyway, do you feel that women's sports are having a moment? You know, since you follow it much more closely than most of us. And what's your half full point of view on it?

CEEJ: There's been so much progress in the past few years, you know, especially when I compare what the industry was like when I first started out. So I've been in journalism since 2012. I moved into sports 2015. So, wow, almost 10 years, right?

Since then, grabe 'yung change. And I'm so proud of how much better it's gotten for women. But every day, I'm also reminded of, you know, there are still huge gaps that we can build on and improve on, 'di ba?

HOWIE: Okay. So the progress muna. Of course, there's a lot to talk about in terms of the challenges and gaps that remain. But what do you mean by progress?

CEEJ: Right. So first is the amount of representation that we have. So just, you know, less than 10 years ago, women's basketball wasn't broadcast every single game. They would only broadcast it during the finals. And because the NU Lady Bulldogs were on this winning streak, right, they won over 100 straight games, that meant they would sweep the finals. So you would only actually see two games out of the entire season televised. And even then, you would only see two teams.

And it's not a good representation because you just watch the team lose to NU. And so you have no idea how good this kalaban actually is kasi they had to beat so many teams to get there, 'di ba? And you couldn't develop a sense of investment, right? And I remember back then, I was pushing as a young sports reporter, I wanted to cover more women's sports.

And so when I was given a column, I said my purpose here is to cover underrated sports. So I would do karate and softball and all of that. And then, my bosses would tell me, "Why are you doing that? No one cares." And they would get mad at me. And then, they would say, "Oh, why are you doing that? If you cover volleyball, you would get so many more hits."

And so the imagination of what women's sports could be was so limited. It was limited to well, sikat na 'yung volleyball. So that's the sport for women. In the same way na sikat 'yung men's basketball, that's the sport for men. And it reflects something about Filipino culture, 'di ba? Because that attitude starts young. That attitude starts at home and at school and in the barangay where, you know, basketball is for boys, volleyball is for girls. Kapag nagpaliga si councilor, it's always men's basketball and women's volleyball. And so that's ingrained, right?

And it carries over into our broadcast. It carries over into choices as well for representation and endorsements. So I remember back then, a common challenge I would hear from female athletes is that if you're not a volleyball player, it was so hard for you to get an endorsement or a sponsorship because brands would ask, "Why don't you look like volleyball players?" So our national softball team, na actually 10 straight SEA Games gold medals sila, nahihirapan silang kumuha ng sponsor kasi sasabihin, "E, malaki 'yung legs n'yo."

And that's what's required for their sport, 'di ba? But it makes it so challenging because there's this imposition of gender norms and gender stereotypes of what a female athlete should be.

Right now, fast forward, you know, Hidilyn has billboards, Hidilyn has a commercial, right? The women jiu jitsu athletes who are excelling and amazing, these are not, you know, long, svelte volleyball players, right? These are bundles of strong muscle and you know, just Meggie Ochoa, if you've ever met her, she's five foot flat and she is so petite but every bit of her is muscle.

And so I'm seeing more diversity in the body types and that's something to be celebrated. There's a lot of firsts that we're celebrating now.

NU LADY BULLDOGS PUT WOMEN’S BASKETBALL IN SPOTLIGHT

HOWIE: Okay. Well, speaking of women's basketball, I remember this major piece that you did on the National University Lady Bulldogs. You mentioned them a while ago. At that time, they had something like a 96-game winning streak. They were a phenomenon in women's sports, in women's basketball.

Pero the flip side of it, sabi mo nga was they weren't really being watched. Sabi mo nga, they were hardly televised despite how good they were, et cetera. So has it changed in the Philippines in terms of women's basketball since then? That was five years ago. Of course, nagkaroon tayo ng pandemic. So for a couple of years, there wasn't really much of an audience anywhere. But nagbago na ba?

CEEJ: Oh, definitely. I think when we did the piece, the NU Lady Bulldogs were on five straight years. And then, they were able to extend that to seven straight years and 108 games. So the wonderful thing about outliers, you know, whether it's Caitlin Clark or, you know, Sabrina Ionescu or the NU Lady Bulldogs is when you do something so unique and so undeniably amazing that people can't look away, right, it forced people to look at women's basketball because it reached a point where it was kind of outrageous that these girls weren't getting televised.

I think I'm just one of many who really demanded, "Why isn't this on air?" You know, why is Jack Animam not a household name? How come Riana Balan went 80 straight wins undefeated in her entire college career and people don't know her, right? She has to wear a T-shirt that says Riana Balan, 80 straight games for people to recognize her. It reached that point.

There was this groundswell of like the fans and the advocates and you know, kinalampag 'yung networks, basically. And I think the direction didn't come top down. It came from ground up, forcing, you know, traditional structures to rethink the way they were doing things.

And so you know, one of the athletes who we recently featured sa Go Hard Girls, her name is Tantoy Ferrer and her story was shared by our guest correspondent, Melissa Nusam. Tantoy is the finals MVP. And what's amazing is she came from an ACL injury. So in her comeback year, finals MVP and they won and it was like a movie, right? And all of that was televised. So gone are the days that that women's basketball players... Grabe, I remember when we did that story sa GMA News Online. It was a multimedia cover story in partnership with Go Hard Girls. GMA greenlit a photo shoot and a video shoot for the NU Lady Bulldogs at the time. And these were champions multiple times over. But I couldn't find good photos of them. Once a year sila nagpapalit ng profile photo 'pag may bago na naman silang championship tapos may group shots sila. So when GMA commissioned this beautiful black and white portrait shoot for them, some of the girls just cried and said, "I've never had a photo like this. No one has ever taken my picture this way."

And you know, they were crying and they were saying, "Ate, thank you. May mape-frame na ako para sa bahay namin. May memory na ako ng year na 'to." And I was so happy in that moment. But I also couldn't help but think, "Oh my God. So the first four years prior to this, wala silang maayos na picture from this, 'di ba?"

So iba na. Now people know what these girls look like. And now, I hopefully, right, the network see that the ticket sales show the demand. And the interest shows the demand. And I hope we keep investing and increasing the investment.

WOMEN’S TEAMS NEED PEOPLE TO BELIEVE AND INVEST IN THEM    

HOWIE: Well, speaking of investing, part of your report was on how this winning streak started. It started with, you know, hiring good coach, good coaches. And then, who did a lot of recruiting. They traveled to recruit really good players. So that starts with a belief on the part of, I guess, the owners of National University. In other words, they valued. It started with someone valuing women's sports even if it probably wasn't going to make money or at least at the start, 'di ba?

As you've mentioned, nag-five-year winning streak, wala pa rin crowds and yet, they persisted in investing. It's almost like a mission. It's almost like a mission on the part of, it could have been a business decision by itself, right? It had to start there na someone had to believe in women's sports even if it wasn't going to bring in a lot of crowds and revenue.

CEEJ: Immediately, right? It's an investment, not a transaction. So the problem is when some owners treat it like a transaction na, "Okay, I'll give you this money, and then in two years, kailangan sikat na kayo. In two years, kailangan big time na kayo. In two years, kailangan marami na kayong fans, 'di ba? O kailangan nananalo na kayo."

And that's just not how championship teams are built. It's built over many years. And so for women's sports, the people that we're looking for and the people who can make a difference are people who are champions, right? They might be one person in an organization, but that's the one person who believes and understands that this is a long-term play, right?

For example, sa Uratex, the person there is Peachy Medina, right? Miss Peachy, amazing advocate for women's sports. And then, you see all of these 3x3 weekend tournaments for women. Uratex isn't just fielding one but two teams. And they're always so good, 'di ba? And they're even sending teams to international competitions.

So it takes people like that who are going to, you know, who are going to say, "This is worth investing in. And I'm going to take my time and I'm going to build this properly." And those are the people who actually get to see proper results.

MAKING THE TEAM IDENTITY GENDER NEUTRAL
 
HOWIE: Okay. You know, speaking of university sports, you went to Ateneo and I'm also an alumnus. And I got a letter some time back from the Ateneo president, announcing that from here on, the women's athletic teams, varsity teams, are also going to be called the Ateneo Blue Eagles.

CEEJ: Yes. Yes.

HOWIE: Nakakagulat. Why did they have to make this move? Isn't it going to confuse people? When you mentioned just Ateneo Blue Eagles, you're not going to know which, you know, which gender. Does it matter? I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Did you agree? And then, should others follow? Like, we just talked about the Lady Bulldogs. Should they just be called the NU Bulldogs?

CEEJ: Yes.

HOWIE: The Women's NU Bulldogs?

CEEJ: They should be. Yes. Yes. Because whenever you designate the men as the like, Bulldogs or Eagles, and then the women become Lady Eagles or like UST, right, Growling Tigers, Growling Tigresses, right, when you meet men, it communicates that men are the standard and then, women are the variation from the standard. Which means they're actually not on equal footing, right?

And the first national team to implement this, even before Ateneo, the first national team was our rugby. So it used to be the Philippine Volcanoes, And then, our women's team was Lady Volcanoes. Now, they had their very first female federation president and her name was Ada Milby. So she's the sister of the artista, Sam Milby, right?

And she's this incredible athlete and she was the first woman to hold this position. And one of the first moves she did was to drop the Lady. And now, it's equal. The same is actually true, supposedly, for our Gilas Pilipinas team. They're now supposed to be called Gilas Pilipinas Men and Gilas Pilipinas Women. However, in implementation, when you look at it in the way it's still being reported, media outlets still use Gilas to refer to the men and Gilas Women for the women.

So the implementation is not yet there but I hope we can keep moving towards just making it gender neutral because it's so easy to know which, kung babae ba 'yan o lalaki naglalaro.

LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES FOR WOMEN ATHLETES GOING PRO IN PH

HOWIE: You know, one of the issues that you've lamented in the past was after their college careers, these, you know, great women basketball players don't have anywhere to go in the Philippines. And if they're going to have a career after college, they have to go overseas or join the military. In fact, you've mentioned that and then play for military teams. Is that still the case?

CEEJ: If they want to continue playing basketball after college, the options are still like military or to join weekend 3x3 tournaments. Puwede kang sumali. May mga cash prize doon. Pero for a full-on professional 5-on-5 league, wala pa.

During the pandemic, one was launched and they called it the WNBL. But it was, you know, I'm not going to mince words, it was run so poorly that the women's basketball community of advocates didn't embrace it. So a lot of women actually did sign up because they were so desperate for a place to play and they were promised that, you know, "Wow, the Philippines, first pro league for women."

But then, to be honest, like, salaries were delayed, there were issues with... In the first round of the draft, there were protected picks that, you know, these were players who didn't even pass the UAAP tryouts but they were chosen in the first round because they were bikini models. 'Yun ganoon.

And so it wasn't embraced by the community. The thing that's embraced currently, by the women's basketball community are these 3x3 tournaments. So Manila Hustle is a great one. They play in malls and then they attract really big crowds. Titan, the sports brand homegrown, they organize a lot of women's tournaments as well. They actually have a very strong women's division that is run by a woman. So ang galing.

When women are in charge, it seems like we get the stuff done. But in terms of the ceiling, what's exciting right now is that the creme de la creme of our women's basketball players are going international in a way that is better than before.

So back in 2013, you had athletes like Allana Lim who was a UAAP MVP but was sadly overlooked at the peak of her UAAP career because Allana is a masculine presenting, you know, athlete. And at the time, you know, there were policies by many teams na, "Hey, you have to wear makeup. Or the leagues, you have to wear makeup for you to be marketable."

And it was so hard for Allana. She never got her due here in the Philippines but after graduation, she got an opportunity to play as an import across Asia and she was the first Filipino athlete to do so. So she opened so many doors for other Filipina athletes but it's only in recent years that people are recognizing this achievement of hers.

We've done an episode on her where she really opened up but Allana said in that episode when she went abroad, she had to use her own savings in her bank account to buy her ticket. And her socks had holes in them and her shoes were old. And she was hoping when she got to the foreign country, they would just give her new gear which they did. That is no longer the condition in which our Filipina athletes are flying out.

So we now have athletes like Jack Animam and Jhazmin Joson. Jack was NU and Jhaz was from Ateneo. They're now playing in Australia and they're professionally represented by proper agents. They, you know, alaga sila. 'Di ba? In the same way that you would expect someone like Kai Sotto na maalagaan when they're going abroad. So nakaka-excite na this door is now open.

And I think for in particular, 'yung group ng Titan, we know them as a sports brand but they also have a management group. So they manage athletes. And one amazing thing is how they manage their female athletes. So athlete nila actually si Jhaz Joson. And so napadala nila si Jhaz Joson abroad and alaga siya. They also handle other members of the Gilas National League.

WHY ARE THERE NO WOMEN’S BASKETBALL LEAGUES IN PH?    

HOWIE: So I'm just curious kasi there's been quite a bit of investment nga in the collegiate ranks. You hire professional coaches, they do a lot of recruitment. I mean, what's preventing the establishment of a bona fide women's professional league?

Why can't there be a counterpart of the PBA? I mean, for example, NU nga. You wrote about NU investing all of this money, prestige, et cetera, in setting up a basketball program. I mean, why not do that professionally?

CEEJ: It's very expensive to run a league. You know, in the PBA, you imagine the monthly payroll of one team is like millions and millions of pesos. You know, and the way that it is working in the PBA, right? Unlike in the NBA where you have these really rich owners and like, "I'm from LA, so this is my team, right?"

In the PBA, you have corporate backing, right? So there's the San Miguel Group, there's the MVP group. And then, you have independent companies like Phoenix, Rain or Shine, and then they have their teams. These are teams that have been investing in men's basketball for years and years and years. And that is their history, that is their heritage.

And I don't think that women's basketball is necessarily a priority for them. The closest they've gotten is that they've had women's 3x3 leagues held within the PBA, men's PBA season. So there was a time that they played the women's 3x3 during the halftime of men's games.

This was a very controversial time, this was 2017, I believe. And the tagline at the time was Baller Hotties. And athletes were asked to dress up in short shorts and si Allana nag-walk out and she threatened na, "I'm not going to play if you're going to make me wear short shorts." So they let her wear jogging pants. You know, things like that.

Recently, they finally had the second iteration of it and it was better. But you can see, right, it's a very long way off. You can imagine these teams are comfortable spending millions and millions of pesos on men's salaries, and you know, all the accouterments that come with it. But with women's teams, it's not a priority really.

SEXUALIZATION OF WOMEN IN SPORTS

HOWIE: Well, you mentioned the outfits. And you've been touching on kind of the sexualization of women athletes. Has that changed? You know, in previous interviews you've had, you know, you talked about this also in your interview with Carl Javier as well when you were starting out. You know, there was a lot of misogyny. There was a lot of focus on, you know, women's bodies. There was more interest in women athletes, you know, appearing in bikinis, et cetera. And even women courtside reporters also felt this kind of sexualization. Are we seeing progress in changing all of that?

CEEJ: I'm going to give you a glass half full, glass half empty thing. So glass half full, you no longer have articles labeled all caps, "LOOK, colon, and then name of athlete, bikini gallery." Like, sports websites are no longer publishing that.

When I was a courtside reporter, they found our swimsuit pictures, none of us provided it. They would look through our vacation photos, find the swimsuit photos and embed them there, school by school. You know, that was the climate back then. We had editors who would greenlight articles saying, "Guess the volleybelle just by looking at her body."

HOWIE: Excuse me, Ceej. Sorry, excuse me. When you say back then, how many years ago was this? Five?

CEEJ: This is as recent as.. Yeah, five years ago. So it's not as a word. And I think this is because the fans are becoming more sophisticated and more educated and they're understanding the needs of the female athletes who they support. And so they're actually pushing back against the sexualization on behalf of the female athletes who they support, which is wonderful, right?

So overtly, we're not seeing it as much. But I will say within the industry, it remains to be a very big problem. I am not going to name names, but I will say that when I hold workshops for young female reporters, you know, at some point, we start off talking about hard work but then we are going to reach a point in the discussion when they start crying and say, "Ate, hard work is not enough.

Because our bosses are telling us, when I hit 25, I will expire. And that's something that hasn't changed because that was also what was told to me when I was a young reporter. And that's, you know, still something. It's an industry that doesn't necessarily nurture women's talent because what happens is you hire young women after a few years, the young women have nowhere to go, and then they just hire another batch of young women.

And very few women are able to, you know, find a place in the industry because training is not provided. You know, the ladder is usually, let's say, your collegiate courtside reporter, so the next step is to be a courtside reporter at the MPBL. And then if you can do it there, maybe you can try for the PBA, right? But you don't actually see women being elevated to be anchors or analysts in basketball.

In volleyball, puwede. But that's because volleyball fits the gender stereotype of pambabae 'yan. 'Di ba? So nandu'n pa rin. Nandu'n pa rin. And there is still, I mean, you can tell, there is still a lot of pressure on women sports reporters to look a certain way.

It might not, it might not be as sexy as before but there is still an imposition on the looks of a woman that you will not see in men. Men are allowed to grow old, Sir Howie. Women are not allowed to grow old in the industry.

HOWIE: You started a hashtag no, #CoverTheAthlete.

CEEJ: Oh, yeah.

HOWIE: What was that about—

CEEJ: I got in so much trouble for that.

HOWIE: Okay. Tell us a little bit about that. What was that a reaction to and what was that experience like?

CEEJ: So that started, I was, how old was I? I was 23 years old and I had just become a courtside reporter. I was covering men's basketball and then, after one season of men's basketball, I had been assigned to women's volleyball. And so because these aren't Ateneo, you know, I didn't grow up with these schools, I needed to research. And I found it was so much easier for me to research men because there was more coverage on game recaps, their performance. I could understand who they were and what made them good.

But when I was looking for women's articles at the time, so this was 2015, 2016, parang I realized, bakit ang daming listicles na kung sinong maganda at kung sinong crush siya ng reporter at sinong crush ng editor. At parang 'yung mga description, "Bakit sa game recap kailangan sabihin the Calm Rachel Daquis? And the stunning, you know, the stunning Gretchen Ho." Bakit ganu'n 'yung game recaps?"

And so I, you know, you know me, right? I started off in your newsroom believing that the world was progressive because I had wonderful female bosses, right? You remember Pia and Candice? So Pia Faustino and Candice Montenegro, my first direct superiors and I really loved working with them. And I felt like, "Hmm. Yes, women have it. Women, women empowerment."

And I go into the sports world and I realized, "Wow, it's a different decade here." So ano, nag-time travel ako. So it hit so hard. It hit so hard. Because I realized there is this whole other side that like we're overlooking this in our pursuit of progress. Like sports is falling behind. And so you know, being a nerd, a debate nerd, which is my background, I decided to write an investigative article for the website that I was writing for at the time. And I interviewed female athletes who fit the mold of what conventional beauty was.

I also interviewed athletes who didn't fit the mold. And I had my good friend, Charmie Lising, who, you know, does data and stats. She helped me do a content analysis analyzing a selection of articles about men and women from different websites. And what we found was that men are talked about 85% of the time in terms of their skills. For women, it's 52%.

And men are talked about in terms of their looks, only 8%. While for women, it's 32%. So this was back in 2016. And so I came out with this article and I thought I wasn't really saying anything like that controversial. I thought this was just simple. Let's, time we stop talking about female athletes. Look, #CoverThe Athlete. Cover the woman.

And I didn't realize how controversial that was gonna be. Like I knew there would be some backlash because of the establishment. But I had no idea how intense it would be. I had no idea that, like, established male sports editors would be tweeting at me like, "Who do you think you are? And marami ka pang bigas na kakainin. Sino ka ba? Wala kang napatunayan. I've been doing this for 20 years. Sino ka ba? You're just a little girl." That's how they were talking to me. And—

HOWIE: So wait. So excuse me. People were defending like a sexist attitude?

CEEJ: Yes.

HOWIE: I mean, basically, you're just saying respect. Basically, you're just saying respect women athletes, 'di ba? Parang ganu'n.

CEEJ: Yes, I know.

HOWIE: And people were against that.

CEEJ: I know. So actually, there was this one editor of... he was a sports editor of a major newspaper and he wrote a rebuttal and published it on his own blog and it was called "No, We Will Not Stop Talking About Women Athletes' Looks." And that actually made my life so hard because at the time, I was a sports reporter, I was a courtside reporter. It made the press room hostile. I couldn't go into the press room without feeling like there were all of these eyes on me.

And even not in the press room but just in the production room going to work, suddenly, I was seen as a troublemaker, as someone who stirred the pot, who rocked the boat. And then, I would have my superiors, even people I considered progressive and mentors, telling me, "Stop being pasaway. Stop rocking the boat. You know, this is how it's going to be. You know, it will change maybe next generation but not yours. So stop. Know how to pick your battles."

And like, hearing that was just, it strengthened, you know, it made me so angry because it strengthened for me like, "Ah, okay. So, this confirms everything. This really is systemic. If even you, the progressives that I thought you were, are going to say this means this runs deeper than I thought, then all the more I have to do this." And so that's where it started. So #CoverTheAthlete.

A lot of female athletes were actually retweeting it, including volleyball players, basketball players. And I had so many women athletes reach out to me. And so that's when I saw the gap. Now, what women want versus how women are treated and what women are expected to be. And so until you bridge that gap and actually represent women in the way that women want to be represented, you're never going to unlock the full potential of marketing a woman's sport. Because you're still always marketing it to men at the end of the day.

So what's great about the WNBA? They might market to men but that's not their primary goal, right? Hagip lang 'yung men. But their whole marketing is actually built on feminism. So the WNBA has all of these programs that when you buy a ticket, a portion of ticket sales go to different women-led organizations, women's charities, reproductive health charities, LGBT charities, 'yung ganu'n.

And then, they once had this, an opening billboard commercial kind of ad where it heavily featured the marches against Donald Trump. The feminist marches against Donald Trump. So it's really part of the voice. And so the NBA is a symbol for like strong women, strong women, palaban. We're not here to, you know, bow to your gender norms. We're here to be women on our terms. And I think that's the next step that we can take here in the Philippines.

SPORTSMEN DEFENDING WOMEN BUT REMAINS AFRAID OF TAKING A STAND    

HOWIE: Well, it seems like, you know, #CoverTheAthlete, you know, reporting revealed a gender divide. I mean, people already knew about it pero 'yun nga, parang nakita talaga 'yung polarization, 'yung differences in attitude. But you told Carl Javier, you know, men have to start speaking out on this as well. And I want to ask you, have men been defending you? I mean, you know, you've mentioned editors and other men, you know, kind of attacking you and rebutting you and the women are behind you. Are there men who break this stereotype naman and support you?

CEEJ: So the most supportive men that, you know, I encounter are actually men from outside the sports industry. You know, people like Carl or, you know, my friend, Mickey Ingles is a wonderful supporter. He's a sports lawyer. But he's not someone who works within sports media. I think within sports media, there is a tremendous peer pressure, you know, in the old boys club because, you know, it's a highly relational industry. You get your gigs based on recommendations, based on people liking you. These are project contracts, right?

So if you ruffle feathers, you stand to lose out, right? Which is what happened to me on many occasions, right? When I started speaking up, I would get in trouble, I would get less gigs, I would, you know, my career options were limited. But I think women are more likely to speak up under those conditions because we actually have skin in the game. Whereas, for men, it's easier to be like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I can't take this risk. I need to protect my relationships" because you don't have skin in the game.

And so what I often observe within the sports industry is guys coming up to me and being like, "Hey, I support you. I just can't post about it pero like thoughts and prayers." Or, you know, guys will be like, "I really like what you're doing. You should continue doing that." And then, that's it.

Or magsusumbong na lang sila sa akin na, "Uy, sinasabi ni ganito na, you know, he's saying these terrible things about you." And then, I ask, "Did you tell him to stop?" And then, they're like, "Hindi. Pero I thought you should know." So I mean, that's me on a personal level, right? But it's not just me. It's a whole industry, right? And so I think, men are still afraid. You know, for all of this male bravado and male machismo, men are afraid of losing their network. And men are afraid of, you know, taking a stand because of what it could mean to them. Like, they're so comfortable with things being built for them na the thought of taking a risk and losing it is unimaginable for many of them.

And so I don't know how we make it easier for them. Like, we've... Parang feeling ko mag-self-discernment. Mag-self-discernment diyan. You need to get there because nakakapagod maging babae na kami na lang palagi. Pagod na. Tumulong naman kayo.

CEEJ AS SOCMED PRODUCER FOR MERALCO BOLTS    

HOWIE: Well, speaking of which, kasi one of your gigs is your social media producer for the Meralco Bolts, PBA team of men. And you mentioned earlier that men's basketball in general or PBA is kind of a conservative industry. So in a way, you're in the lion's den.

Tell us about that experience and why did you choose considering the risk for a young woman to be constantly interacting and then, maybe even risk offending large men. 'Di ba? I mean, it can be scary.

CEEJ: Oh yes.

HOWIE: It can be scary. So what's that like?

CEEJ: I think the pattern here is that I am not a very risk-averse person. I like risk. And the enjoyment for me of trying to make a change or, you know, trying to do something that could, you know, move the needle a little bit, that outweighs whatever discomfort that I have. So I really actually enjoy it.

So when I first got the chance to work in the PBA in 2017, which I hadn't planned on, right? It only happened because I wrote an article saying that all PBA teams should have a social media and here's why. And suddenly, the NLEX Road Warriors were calling me and then, a week later, I was pitching in front of Coach Yeng Giao and then suddenly I had the job, right? And I was their first ever social media manager. I set everything up.

But you're right. It is a lion's den. You know, without naming names, for the first month of me doing that, there was a basketball player who didn't call me by my name and kept addressing me as Baby in front of other people. And then, you know, the men didn't know what to do. They were like, "Eh," and just ignoring their teammate, right? And to me, but not really stopping their teammate.

But I wanted to be, I wanted to be a woman in the PBA and I wanted to show people that, "Ha, a woman can belong here and a woman can make, can make really good work." So that was fuel for me to actually chase an award while I was with NLEX and we won an Anvil Award for a campaign that we did. And you know, I really wanted to carve out my space there.

And I made a decision, you don't have to like me. We don't have to be chummy chums but I'm gonna do good work and I'm gonna show everyone that a woman is the one doing this good work. So I did that with NLEX. And that was me in my mid to late 20s. I've been with Meralco since 2020.

And as you get older, your risk appetites change a little bit. So when I got to Meralco, this was also the time when I was taking on more leadership roles in my main job. So the social media management is just a freelance, right? And as I was taking on more leadership, I realized I can't spend so much emotional labor, you know, getting stressed out or trying to block harassers or trying to explain to PBA players that, "I'm not here to ruin your marriages. I'm not interested in any of you. So stop getting in my way, you know."

So I became quite selective, actually. And I think if Meralco wasn't the way that it is, I probably wouldn't be doing this. Meralco has so far been a very safe place for me. When the issue of Paul Desiderio came out, the allegations of really terrible, terrible abuse came out, I tweeted about it.

Stopping violence against women is something that's very important to me. And it went viral and I was invited to do an interview. And nagpaalam ako sa team manager namin. I was fully expecting to be told no because of what I knew about basketball. And, and I had been stealing myself. I was ready to get my heart broken because I had a wonderful experience with Meralco. And I was like, "Oh gosh, is this gonna be the moment where my heart breaks?"

So nagpaalam ako. And then I said, "Sir, I'm not asking for your permission. I'm just letting you know. And if the other teams get mad or if the governors of the other teams, you know, call us out for this, I hope you know that this is important. That it's not just me." As in, ang dami kong paliwanag. And kabang-kabang ako.

And then, our team manager, Paolo Trillo, who is married to UN Women Philippines Champion Risa Mananquil-Trillo, replies, "Don't worry. We'll back you up all the way. Good luck with your interview." And I was like, "Wow! I just got the green light to talk about violence against women in the PBA." And so I went on TV and then, of course, I did the thing.

So you know, um, I'm still here because I want to keep showing people that women can do it in this male-dominated PBA. But, I want to do it in an environment where it's not so tough. Thank goodness, Meralco is a very nice place for me to work.

REACTIONS AFTER THE INTERVIEW ABOUT DESIDERIO

And so that's what I mean by publicly, ang daming change pero privately, nandiyan pa rin 'yung mga ... 'yan. Medyo nahihiya lang sila magpakita na ganu'n sila to the public kasi kailangan na lang nilang mag-sanitize ng images nila. Pero malaki pa rin problema.

HOWIE: Your players sa Meralco, were they protective? Sabi mo nga, tumabi ka sa mga player n'yo. So they were behind you.

CEEJ: Well, ano, different levels, right? Different levels. They're not all equally enlightened naman. Pero my favorite person is Chris Newsome. So he's our team captain. After that interview, he told me, "Hey, if anyone tries anything with you, you tell me." And he said he really appreciated that.

EQUITY AND EQUALITY OF GENDER IN SPORTS REMAIN TO BE AN UPHILL BATTLE

But, you know, you hope, e. You just sit there and hope the dinosaurs will go extinct. And you wait and you are the chicken.

HOWIE: Yeah, well.

CEEJ: The chicken that survives.

HOWIE: Yeah. Well, they're also a reflection of society but at the same time, kung magbago sila, maybe the rest of society will also change.

CEEJ: Oo nga e. I don't know. I think, Sir Howie, something that's really interesting is the increasing polarization of this gender conversation because while women are having more and more access to women empowerment content, more and more boys are falling down this algorithm of incel content, and like, alpha male, and like, woman-hating content. And so 'yun, in the same way na, parang politically ang polarized, ganu'n din sa gender.

HOWIE: Yeah. Wow. Well, scholars should be studying that 'yung the effect of all of these.

CEEJ: Yeah, yeah. Parang nawawala 'yung healthy masculinity. So femininity is being celebrated pero 'yung healthy masculinity, like the male, the masculinity influencers that are preaching to young boys are preaching a very toxic version of masculinity. It's not like, parang the term that I use, I heard is that the healthy version of masculinity is the heroic masculinity.

'Yung parang, you know, from the myths, and you know, this guy's the hero, and he, you know, he protects people and he saves people. That's the heroic masculinity. But then, what's being taught to boys is this version of you must dominate, you must be in control, you must, you know, like, masyado nang nakakalamang ang mga babae.

I hope if anyone takes away anything from my story, it's that when you create environments for women to actually be empowered and use their voice, grabe, may multiplier effect. So, you know, if you're a guy and you can do that for women, maybe that's the first step you can take. Thanks, Sir Howie.

HOWIE: It seems like you're moving the needle as you want to do. That's a really great and positive note to end on. This has been really fun and so enlightening. Maraming maraming salamat, Ceej Tantengco-Malolos. Thank you for your voice and for your courage. Go hard, Ceej.

CEEJ: Thank you.