Gomburza was a little fire that became a revolution —Pepe Diokno

Metro Manila Film Festival Best Director awardee for the film “Gomburza,” Pepe Diokno, shares his surprise at how a serious movie about history has drawn mainstream audiences.

He talks to Howie about researching how the idea of a Filipino nation was born and how faithfully his movie tries to portray history.

They discuss the challenge of dramatizing historical events without battlefield heroes and the need to set the record straight about what happened in the 1872 Cavite Mutiny which led to the martyrdom of the three priests Gomes, Burgos and Zamora. The executions inspired Jose Rizal’s life work.

Pepe addresses the Majoha reality-show brouhaha sympathetically and what it says about the way history is taught. Howie asks him how coming from the illustrious Diokno family influences his choice of subject.

“Gomburza” is the 36-year-old Pepe’s first film in eight years, after a period of self-doubt about his career. Audience response in recent weeks seems to have restored his faith.

HOWIE: Magandang araw, podmates. Our guest today is Pepe Diokno, the director of the powerful historical film, GomBurZa, which won a slew of awards at the Metro Manila Film Festival over this holiday season. And made many of us think about history. Pepe was named Best Director in the Metro Manila Film Festival. Magandang araw sa 'yo, Pepe, and congratulations.

PEPE: Thank you so much, Howie. Magandang araw. And hello to everybody listening. It's a real honor to be here with you, Howie. Honestly, thank you.

HOWIE: Thank you for making the time, Pepe. You've been so busy, 'no? How has it been being kind of the toast of Philippine cinema in the last few weeks? Kumusta 'yung buhay mo in the last few weeks?

PEPE: It's been just so surreal, honestly. Because coming from, you know, the start of the festival, I was really very anxious. I wasn't so sure how our film was going to do. I think when the number of cinemas came out, we were on the lower end of the spectrum, along with Firefly.

Congratulations, guys, for Firefly as well. Great film. But then, the first two days of the festival, we would already hear stories of screenings being sold out, people really responding to the film. That just, first of all, took me by surprise. I was hoping for it, but, you know, very anxious and not expecting it also.

And then, it's just sort of snowballed from there. From 39 cinemas, we went up to 130. And just hearing the audience reaction, we've been going around different cinemas doing Q&As afterwards, really helping people also process the emotions after the film. But it's a good feeling. I like it. I haven't been able to connect with an audience like this before.

With GomBurZa and with Firefly, people really clamored for the film. They were calling up, they were asking for screenings. And then that's when the cinemas started to realize that they, I think, need to show these films.

HOWIE: Okay. Para kang nagulat na nagkaroon ng ganitong klaseng reaction. Sabi mo nga, ang laki ng demand sa oras mo because parang may Cinemalaya feel although this is a commercial film festival. It's meant to earn money, 'no? Bakit ka nagugulat?

PEPE: Many factors. MMFF, as you mentioned, is meant to be a commercial festival. So there was an assumption before na lahat ng mga pelikula na nasa MMFF should cater to the whole family. Which is why you tend to have really more entertaining, fantasy or more genre fare that could fit all ages.

And our film, as you mentioned, is more serious. I would say may pagka-intellectual. And we don't have those fantasy elements that we're used to. And then, coupled with that is, you know, Cedric Juan is a great actor. But this is his first lead role as well. And he doesn't have that household name recall yet. But I think he will, definitely after this film. So there were these many factors.

[READ: Who is Cedrick Juan, the best actor in MMFF 2023?]

And we were all really so anxious about getting into MMFF at first because of these things. But we really wanted to get into MMFF because we wanted to reach the widest audience possible. And in our industry, over the last two years of the pandemic, three years actually, there was really a slump. And it's hard for us to compete with Hollywood, as always, compete with bigger films, international films. And MMFF is really the only opportunity for Filipino films where we have that protection that our government gives us. They put us in cinemas. And audiences know that when they go to the movie house, it's all Filipino movies that they will see.

So it's a big opportunity, I think, for producers. And we really wanted to be part of that. But we were not expecting that audiences would come back actually to cinemas. And of course, not expecting this reaction to the film.

HOWIE: So ano kaya 'yung factors behind that? Kasi nag-extend pa 'yung run ng MMFF. Dumami nga 'yung theaters as you mentioned. People are going back to theaters after being away. Sabi mo nga nagkaroon ng slump, we had a pandemic. And all of a sudden, parang nagkaroon ng comeback. Which is sabi mo nga na pati ikaw nagulat. It surprised many people. Nag-extend nga ng run. Ano 'yung thoughts mo about this?

PEPE: I've been thinking about it but all I have are theories. I think kailangan talaga nating pag-aralan from a data perspective 'yung turnout this year. I'm very happy about the box office this year, which I just heard surpassed one billion [pesos].

[READ: MMFF 2023 breaks box office record with P1.069-billion gross]

But I think we need to factor in the prices of the tickets. And we need to see how many admissions actually that had. Because I think as an industry, what we need to promote is just to get more people to the cinemas again. To get more admissions rather than just box office. We need more people... more Filipinos to see Filipino films. So we need to grow that. Apart from looking at admissions and seeing if this is a good thing. And definitely compared to the last two years, it was.

I was thinking about why audiences are back. I think first and foremost, it's the selection of the films. I think the MMFF did a good job in selecting this crop. And it was an honor to be just part of the ten.

I would also say, I think, that the actors are so involved this year. Because we were supposed to shoot this in 2020, 2021. It was supposed to be released in 2021 as a tribute to the 500 years of the church in the Philippines. But the project got put on hold.

And over the pandemic, we had lost loved ones. We lost co-workers. And I think when the film was restarted, when JesCom decided to do the film again, it became a lifeline for so many of us. Parang this film, GomBurZa was an opportunity to work again, to have livelihood.

But also an opportunity to do what we love. And an opportunity to create something bigger than ourselves. So we really... I saw how everybody poured their heart and soul into it. Because it was that lifeline.

It shows you that everybody, I think so many people in the industry were just so happy to get back to work. So happy after two years of the pandemic, just so happy to do what we love again. There was so much passion.

And so I think in the release of the films, the casts have been so generous with their time. You have Dingdong and Marian, for example, going also to the cinemas, meeting with audiences again. We have our cast in GomBurZa after the screenings doing Q&As, which makes, I think, which made MMFF more of an event.

It's strange, but I was telling you a while ago, I have the same feeling as a Cinemalaya, that you see audiences excited to watch Filipino films again, excited to be part of this event. That was MMFF. That is MMFF.

So I think that's it. All of those things came together. I think coupled also with the fact that the makeup of the industry is different now. In terms of, you know, there was a big shakeup in our industry. And now the actors have more stakes in the films that they create. As well as the directors. And so that also did help them promote it even more. The films that they made.

So I think all of that came together. And I'm just glad that audiences are responding as well. So I also do want to mention that because ticket prices are so high now — honestly, I think they're quite high — it also sort of maybe changed the makeup of who we think our movie-going audience is.

I think the people who can afford tickets to the movie houses are people who are also exposed to cinema from all over the world. And during the pandemic, we were all watching streaming. We were all watching films on the internet. We had all been exposed to Korean. We had all been exposed to Hollywood. Even films from other countries.

The mom of my partner over the pandemic had discovered a Turkish TV series. But very well-made Turkish TV series, for example. So we were all exposed to world cinema.

But imagine during the pandemic, so many people had that exposure. And I think that changed also the tastes, changed the expectations of moviegoers. And it just so happened that the crop, I think, of films this year met those tastes and expectations. We need to see what happened this year, I think, and learn from it.

HOWIE: Okay. So why the topic of GomBurZa, the three priest martyrs of 1872? And how did you end up directing it?

PEPE: As I mentioned, this was an idea of JesCom in order to celebrate the 500 years of the church in the Philippines. And I think, to them and but to me I'll maybe talk about my own perspective on that. What I found valuable is, you know, talking about the church in the Philippines we all know our history of cross and sword, for example, where religion was used to colonize the Philippines.

I think this was making the point that religion also became a tool for us to discover our national identity because we had been given in the secularization movement the power to wear these cassocks and minister the parishes that also empowered Filipinos and made us believe that we could be just as human or have the same rights as Spanish people. That's where it started. So I think that it was making that point.

But also when I came into the project, I was also asking myself what is all this hullabaloo about? Historical films kasi usually big bombastic larger than life figures at times of war. That's what they're usually about. Stories are often told about figures like that.

And as I read more and more about the three priests, the more I realized that this story is a story not about individual heroism but of the collective. It's a story not about battle but of sacrifice.

And I think these values are Filipino values that Rizal and the Katipunan had found so important and that's what resonated with them and I think that's what continues to resonate today.

HOWIE: Nabanggit mo 'yung JesCom as the producers of the film. JesCom is short for Jesuit Communications. I think they produce films and they're connected to Ateneo University, tama ba?

PEPE: Yes. They produced Ignacio de Loyola previously. So this is their second feature film. And then, they do series, a lot of online content as well.

HOWIE: Oh, okay. The Jesuit of course, is a religious order and you know, we know from our own history, from Rizal's novels you know that religious orders have also been criticized, attacked for what they did in the Philippines. Jesuits of course are only one religious order. The other prominent ones are the Augustinians, the Dominicans, the Recollects, et cetera.

Some skeptics can't help but think out loud about that connection and speculate that you know this is part of an effort by the church, by you know the Jesuits maybe in particular to, you know, improve the image of the church in our history and present another side. Ano 'yung response mo riyan?

PEPE: Ako, it's a valid critique, a valid discussion to have definitely. But at the same time we have also got reactions from some religious orders saying that they were angered by their portrayals in the film. But for us... Well, for me personally, as a filmmaker I was not, never dictated upon by the Jesuits or the church about what to show.

There are things actually in the film that when I began, even I was... I had to ask "Is this okay that we had to do this?" For example, the fact that Zamora, Father Zamora was a gambler and then, we show also a friar gambling with him. It's a little testy but it's based on the truth.

And the response that I got was we'll show it because it's true. It's based on history. There's a scene in the film I think that just, which is where a lot of the discussion comes from, where we have a friar who says, "At the end of it all that they were used. And that history will hate us friars and not Izquierdo, the governor-general, not Spain."

That's actually also one of my favorite scenes. But what I do have to say about that scene is that, I don't think it's meant to absolve the friars for what they've done. And earlier on the film, we talked a lot about the excesses of the friars. There are lines about how they grabbed land. There are lines and scenes about how conservative they were, how they refused to teach Spanish to the locals and how the friars in this film, it said they were the cause of why there was so little progress in the Philippines.

So it wasn't meant to absolve all that. What it was meant to show was that in the situation of GomBurZa and the three priests, why is it that so many Filipinos have not heard about Izquierdo, for example, yet?

I think it's a valid thing to say that the friars do tend to take heat and not the policies of the government, which were very anti-Filipino in the sense of Filipinos who were people who were born here. We had less rights just because we were born here. And I don't think necessarily just because of the friars. It's also because of the policies of the government back then.

HOWIE: Okay, that begs the question nga na how much of this is based on what really happened? Sabi mo nga it's based on the truth, that particular incident that you mentioned with the friar.

Ang dami kasing detalye nito and there's been nitpicking, there's been some debate, discussion. How faithful is it? And to what extent were you obliged to be accurate in your portrayals?

PEPE: Well, it is a historical, it is a work of drama based on historical records. But I think at the core of it, at the core of it, is that we needed to, at its heart, present I think what we...our view of what happened and our view of what history was.

I think one of the first challenges that we had, really, was that there's so many conflicting records and texts about Burgos, so many conflicting records and texts about the Cavite Mutiny, and about Izquierdo, for example.

So, some historians will tell you that Burgos wrote the Manifesto of Los Filipinos. Other historians will say he didn't. Some historians will tell you that the Cavite Mutiny was just an uprising, not even an uprising, but just a protest of soldiers who were unhappy with the policies of Izquierdo. Others will tell you that, no, it was actually a pro to revolutionary uprising for, in order to get rid of the control of Spain. And then with the…

HOWIE: Hold on. Just pause for a second there before you proceed. That particular point lang, I wanted to ask you also about. May koneksyon ba talaga 'yung tatlong pari doon sa Cavite Mutiny, sa palagay mo?

PEPE: Well, throughout all these conflicting records and conflicting historical texts, we made the decision very early on to focus on the writings of Father Schumacher, one of our foremost historians, also a Jesuit who taught at Ateneo.

He had written a text called Cavite Mutiny Toward a Definitive History. And that's what we defaulted towards. And in that, he said that the priests did not have a direct involvement in the Cavite Mutiny. That others had... that there was the grumblings of the soldiers, that they were thinking already about ending the control, and that they were helped monetarily by these Criollos.

And they had laid out their plans in this text. So that's the text that we defaulted to. And that informed the script, basically. So, yeah, we sort of had to make that call early on because when you make a film, it has to, I think, present a story that's clear.

We did have earlier drafts where all of those different competing narratives were explored. But then for me, it lacked an emotional line. So, I made a decision very early on, okay, we're sticking with Schumacher and we're presenting this view of history.

HOWIE: And his line was, "Ginamit lang 'yung Cavite Mutiny as like a reason to arrest these three priests."

These, they were troublemakers especially si Burgos and to a lesser extent, the other two, to kind of eliminate them as threats to the regime, to the Spanish regime.

PEPE: Yes. The context of all that was because, and it says in the opening lines of the film, opening supers, that in Mexico, the revolution was led by a priest, Father Morelos. And I think that's, that was the thinking behind Izquierdo. And that's the reason why napag-initan 'yung tatlo.

HOWIE: Yeah, yeah. And well, one interesting aspect of your film was the way it began with Hermano Pule, 'no? Which you show in the... which you show in the beginning of the film, wanted to become a priest, but was prevented from doing so because he was an Indio. So he set up his own religious movement that rebelled.

And then, you know, of course, and then, they ended up being massacred. So parang you connected the dots from Hermano Pule to Pelaez, to Burgos, to later on, Paciano Mercado, and then, of course, Jose Rizal. Was that also the Schumacher thesis? How much liberty did you take with that? I mean, going all the way back to Hermano Pule as kind of the precursor or like a predecessor of GomBurZa and Pelaez?

PEPE: I was talking to Rody Vera about this. The decision to start with Pule, I think, was an idea of Rody. And Rody, apart from Schumacher — let me pull up and read it because I was just talking to him about it a while ago — Rody had also consulted the works of other historians like Fidel Villaruel, Luciano Santiago, Carlos Quirino.

I think that's sort of where it came from as well as Schumacher. For me, reading Schumacher, the line from Pelaez to Burgos to Paciano to Rizal was very clear. And actually Rizal did dedicate El Fili to the three priests. They're there in the introduction, there is a cover of El Fili, although I think it's the second or third edition where you see the three priests already. This is actually early 1900s.

But there is that visual link. And then, in letters that Rizal had written to friends, he had actually said that, "If it were not for the three priests, I probably would not have written my novels. I would probably be a Jesuit friar," he said.

And then, another letter, he had said that, GomBurZa or Burgos specifically had taught me concepts of justice, for example. So that line was very clear. And then, added to the fact pa that the Katipunan was inspired by GomBurZa as well. They had actually, we say it in the film, used black, pieces of black cloth as an anting-anting, actually.

HOWIE: Tapos naging password pa 'yung GomBurZa sa Katipunan.

PEPE: Yeah. For me, that was a risk early on, e. Parang when I first came into the project and we were reading more about history, I had really gravitated towards this story that was not just about the three priests, but about how this little fire had spread throughout society and became the revolution that we had.

I was so fixated by the fact that the term 'Filipino' to refer to us as a people had actually started with the native priests. Actually Pelaez had a publication called  ---

HOWIE: El Catolico Filipino.

PEPE: Yeah. So he had actually used it in the publication. So that term started with the priests and it really was only meant to refer to them — native Philippine-born priests. But then eventually, it started to catch on other sectors of society.

The Criollos, the Mestizos adopted it until it became adopted by us as a nation. Although I know when we were... when the Philippines was founded, even that was a question, whether we should call ourselves Filipino, whether the Philippines is even a name that we need to call our country.

And that's I think another discussion that we should have all together. That was a little fire that began in the church, began with the priests and then spread to society.

HOWIE: Okay. I have to insert a question suggested by one of my colleagues, you know, who also watched GomBurZa. And maybe others are also wondering about this detail in your story, ano. The Ketchup Eusebio character. The one who implicated Gomburza.

PEPE: Saldua. Francisco Saldua. Actually, the fourth person executed.

HOWIE: Tama. Saldua. Correct, correct. Was he ordered by the Spanish to implicate the priests or what? Ano 'yung motivation niya roon?

PEPE: In the historical records, it said that he did testify against the three priests. I mentioned one of the Q&As that we did. The actual records of the trial have not been found. Many have been trying over the years to find them even, we even tried in the military archives in Spain. It just so happened that my aunt, Maris Diokno, who used to head the Historical Commission, she was there when we were doing preparations and I begged her to try, but really, hasn't been found.

But yeah. According to the testimonies that we have, and even Schumacher says that Saldua testified against the three priests. But I will say, we did have a departure with Saldua and two departures actually that I wanna discuss.

One was with Saldua, and then, another having to do with Burgos. The first thing about Saldua is, according to records, when it was his turn to be executed, he apparently, allegedly, went up on stage and was so smug about it, he was smiling, he was confident until the very last moment that he would be pardoned.

And I, when we and our key staff in the team had discussed this, we felt that that wasn't right for the story that we were trying to tell. We needed to give Saldua a motivation to turn against the three priests. Three priests who he knew were innocent. And projecting it, I think, to who we are today, we were thinking about what would motivate somebody to be a traitor? What would motivate somebody to implicate someone that they know is innocent?

And there are some reasons, maybe to protect the family, maybe for money. And so for Saldua, we had been a little bit more sympathetic, and said maybe he did it to protect his family. And that's what grounded his character as portrayed in the film.

Ketchup had portrayed this character who is not necessarily part of that rich Criollo circle but maybe wanting to be. Somebody who was given this opportunity, maybe to be part of it, and then, was ultimately the fall guy. And he was, for me, a fall guy because he was executed while the people who had allegedly funded this thing were given exile.

So that's one departure I want to discuss. The other having to do with the mutiny... with the execution is Burgos. According to historical accounts, Burgos' last words... By the way, the last words of Gomez and Burgos in the film are their actual last words based on historical records.

So Gomez had really said, "Walang dahon sa puno ang puwedeng lumipad kung hindi kahilingan ng Diyos." Very poetic. And that informed his characterization as somebody being very stoic, somebody who had accepted his fate.

With Burgos, he said, "Wala kami kasalanan. Bakit kami kailangan mamatay ng ganito? Wala bang hustisya sa mundo?" And historical accounts had said that he delivered it weeping, pitiful, crying. And for me, story-wise, I don't think it would have been a satisfying ending because it goes against what we know about him.

We know that he was a firebrand. We know he was intelligent. We know that he was standing up for their rights. Why would he, at the last moments of his life, revert to this cowardice that they say? Something so undignified, it didn't seem right from a character perspective.

And then, when we started to ask, okay, what did he say? "Wala kaming kasalanan." We ask ourselves, isn't that something that's dignified? Isn't that something that's defiant? Isn't that the most dignified thing you can do when faced with a wrongful execution is to proclaim your innocence?

And isn't that, when he proclaimed his innocence, isn't that what energized the crowd? Isn't that what the crowd saw? This innocent person getting killed. We are familiar with this injustice. We know that injustice and that united everybody to say we're all Filipino just like him.

So in the film, we wanted to give this dignified "Wala kaming kasalanan" delivery for Burgos. And I think that's really what we were trying to present that, you know, even if, you know, these three priests were killed tragically, wrongfully but the fire that they had didn't die.

PEPE: And because the fire had spread throughout the people who were there and throughout the people who had heard about this story, then ultimately, it gave birth to our country. So it wasn't a complete and total loss, wasn't a complete and total tragedy.

HOWIE: One intriguing presence doon sa iba't ibang eksena sa GomBurZa 'yung Indio character na may mahabang buhok. You see him being the servant of the peninsulare, priests, and then he makes appearances here and there. And then, nandu'n siya sa execution scene.

And eventually, you show him being one of the revolutionaries. I guess he's meant to represent like this whole Indio population. I'm sure they had Indio servants, 'di ba, in the convents and serving the priests. You didn't have to invent that.

But 'yung ganu'ng klaseng character na talagang parang you showed this gradual conscientization, politization or naging political 'yung dating nag-o-observe lang ng mga behavior kaniyang mga amo, 'no? What thoughts went into that character?

PEPE: It's a dramatic device. It's a story device. The character. But it was coming from the thought that early on in the film, we see a very fractured society. There's a difference between those born in Spain and those who were born here, there's a difference between classes. The Indios that we see were servants and the, the richer, more elite.

And then, there's one scene where a servant is asked if he considers himself Filipino. And he says, "No, I'm Tagalog." So it just... We were not a nation in the sense at the time. But when the priests were killed, everybody had began to see themselves in these three priests. And a lot of historians say... actually some historians have also said, although I don't necessarily agree with this, some historians have said that…

One historian said that there was no Philippine history before 1872, the year that GomBurZa was killed. I don't agree with that but many would point to that event as an event that unified us. And maybe, maybe all of us said, "Oh, we're just like them. We are Filipino as well."

But it wasn't just the elite who said that. it was everyone, even the Indios. And I think, everyday sort of Filipinos of all classes had come together in that scene. So we needed that representation. And so we were very intentional about planting this early on.

And I think that is... It also reflects what the instruction of the film  in a sense na we... it shows this little fire that grows, that becomes bigger and bigger and bigger. So if you make that a parallel visually, it shows characters who were in the background who seemingly have no significance coming more and more into the foreground until they have an impact at the end.

HOWIE: Okay. I have to refer at this point to something that happened on a reality show on TV that which kind of made a lot of people laugh. But at the same time, may kahalong hiya and, you know, overall embarrassment.

Just to refresh, there was this TV reality show where there are some young artistas or artista wannabes who made the mistake of referring to GomBurZa as Majoha instead. You know, they basically just got a little bit of their history confused.

PEPE: Well, actually when that happened, Majoha, we were already preparing for the film. So we had a group chat and as soon as that came out, somebody had already sent in our group chat a poster that said Majoha. But the thing is, if you think about it, they were not wrong. Kasi Mariano Gómez, Ma, Jo, Jose Burgos, Ja, Jacinto Zamora.

They had just put together the first names and not the last names. And for me, what that made me realize is, I'm not different. Most of us are not different from them because maybe we know their names, maybe we know how they died, that they died by garote, but actually even I came in not knowing much other than that.

Not just details, like for example, that Gomez was much older than the other two or details like there was a Padre Pedro Pelaez who had mentored Burgos or details like Zamora, for example, was really just at the wrong place at the wrong time during his arrest.

But more of like the bigger picture, like the fact that this parang idea of a national consciousness began with the secularization movement. So parang, for me, it was more of a challenge in order to deepen and I guess and just explore that part of our history even more.

I don't want to laugh about it also because I think it just made me realize na parang oo nga. How come when we learn history in school, it's really just enumeration of names and dates and stuff? Isn't that not how we're supposed to teach history? Isn't it more about the context and the meaning of what these events mean to us?

HOWIE: Yeah. And of course, the word story is part of the word history, 'di ba? I mean, history is much more than names and dates. Sabi mo nga, it's really a story, which basically what your movie is. It's a very powerful story and that's really what's going to be embedded in people's heads rather than acronyms and 'yun nga, those little details that make up the story.

PEPE: Yeah. Yeah. When we were doing post, I was also going back to school, sort of, I attended the workshop in Italy. I told you about this before, but I just want to mention. I was in Torino and this is the original capital of Italy. This is where the ruling family had come from before Italy was unified.

And one of my... the workshop organizers was giving us a tour. She was talking about, "Oh, this is my favorite historical figure. His name is Camillo Cavour." And she gave us a quote. She said, "He said once, 'Okay, we've unified Italy. We made Italy. Now it's time to make Italians.'"

And when she said that, I realized that nationhood, our identity is something that's constructed. It's not something that's just given to us and then, it's okay. No, it's actually, it's an ongoing project. It's something intentional.

So I'm not sure how it affected the film, but I always ask myself, how do we create Filipinos? How do we participate in this project of nation building today? What are the stories that we tell each other? What are the ideas that we exchange that makes us who we are? It just food for thought.

HOWIE: Yeah. Well, you know, in that context din, I wanna tell our listeners and viewers or maybe remind because maybe many of them already know that, you know, you're not coming from nowhere. I mean, you're the son of Chel Diokno who is a human rights lawyer, ran for the Senate, you're the grandson of Jose Diokno, your namesake, who was, you know, considered the father of human rights in the Philippines.

And then one of your ancestors, si Ananias, great grandfather mo ba? Or great great grandfather mo? Si General Diokno of the Philippine Revolution din.

PEPE: Yes.

HOWIE: Yeah. Anyway, what I want to ask about that is to what extent does your ancestry or lineage influence your work, your choices of topics? Kasi napansin ko, well, obviously, GomBurZa is a serious film but even your previous work, you've done work on, frat violence, you know, the drug war. 'Yung Above the Clouds is also about grandson-grandfather estrangement, you know. It's also pretty intense.

Can a Pepe Diokno, you know with that kind of lineage do comedy, for example? I mean, do you feel free to do anything you want or do you feel a certain responsibility to do social commentary, political films, history, historical films?

PEPE: Well, first, with historical films, I think it's really an honor and a privilege just to get the opportunity to do one. So when JesCom had invited me to pitch for the project, I jumped at it. Because I think all filmmakers, I think would like, most filmmakers would like to explore this, but it's important for us to tell stories.

But I don't know. I would say maybe early on but I'm trying to distance myself from that. Try to have more fun I guess. You know, over the last eight... 'Coz I haven't made a film in eight years.

My last film was still in 2015, actually. And then, in the interim, I stopped making movies. I really feel after that third film that I had hit a dead end creatively. So I went into advertising actually. So I've done a lot of commercials, mga branded short films. Those viral films that you... that many people watched. We made some of those.

And I've done love stories na branded commercials that millions have seen. I've done comedies and I really find it fun and it's something that I would like to do more of. There's a film I'm working on now that's a horror film. But I don't think mawawala 'yung political or maybe a social aspect of it because I think that all the stories, all art I think is political.

Every filmmaker I think should have a point of view. So I don't think mawawala 'yun. But I'm trying to have more fun with what I do. I hope.

HOWIE: I've seen some of those commercials. They are fun. I mean, it's just that they're rarely branded as directed by Pepe Diokno. The films that you're really known for are these films. But in particular, before we wrap up, Pepe, 'yung film mo na Engkwentro, that was years before President Duterte was elected president. And when you made it, he was mayor of Davao.

Well, it was basically what was going on in Davao at that time, 'no? But it foretold what was going to happen in the country just you know, years later. Kasi ano 'yan? 2009?
 
So imagine, that was seven years before, 'no? And then you were, it was kind of a warning in a way, 'no? So how did you feel when 'yung topic mo, 'yung subject mo doon sa film na 'yun became kind of real life, you know, writ large?

PEPE: On one level, I think I felt like I had failed. Honestly. In fact, it even came to a point and I think this is one of the reasons why I started making films. I stopped making films in 2016. Yeah. 2015, 2016. Kasi parang what are we even doing this for? I still have those feelings every now and then. Those thoughts every now and then. So yeah. I'm not gonna lie.

HOWIE: Yeah, okay. But has that perception or feeling changed now because of GomBurZa and the reactions to it?

PEPE: Well, the thing is I don't blame the audience and I don't blame the people. Because I... Okay. In the last eight years, apart from doing advertising, I've also done comms, done a lot of volunteer work as well, talking about different issues, human rights, for example, and even during mga political, during election season.

And I've come to realize that if we're not getting the message across and if we're not creating the responses that we want, it's less about the people and more about us and the perspective that we have. How do we retrain our thinking? How do we change the way we speak in order to get points across even more?

And maybe, for me, personally, it's been a change of perspective. It's not... I've tried to change my perspective from what can I express, what can I say, what message can I impart, and more of what can I give, what can I share, what experience I can share with the viewers.

It sounds simple, but I think medyo fundamental na we need to think of our audience more. It's basically what I've learned over the last eight years. What experience are we giving them? What emotions are we stirring in them?

And yeah. So I think na with this film, I was lucky that with this film sort of been able to apply that perspective. I'm now thinking about the audience even more. I respect the audience. And I wanna keep giving the audience stories that are well-developed and well-made.

In the times that I was dejected because of what was happening in our country, it forced me to look inward and see that there were failings and limitations, maybe, yeah, on my end that I needed to improve.

HOWIE: Wow. You know, as part of your audience, thank you, thank you for that perspective and thinking of us in that way. So that's a great note to end on, Pepe. This has been a great conversation. Salamat for sharing the backstories and may you continue to direct quality films. Mabuhay ka, Pepe Diokno, award-winning director of GomBurZa.

PEPE: It's been an honor. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.