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Jean Smart, Hannah Einbinder, cast and creators talk of season 4 of 'Hacks'
Jean Smart is one actress who continues to make waves long after starting her acting career in film and television in the late 1970s and early 1980s
Now 73, the Seattle, Washington-born thespian who also has theater credits to her name, has bagged several awards and accolades, which include six Primetime Emmy Awards, three Screen Actors Guild Awards, two Golden Globe Awards, and nominations for a Tony Award and a Grammy Award.
Portraying Deborah Vance, a legendary Las Vegas stand-up comedian, in “Hacks,” the Golden Globe Award winner for Best Television Series-Musical or Comedy for its first and third seasons, Smart continues to impress audiences and critics alike with her performances in the TV series, now on its fourth season.
We were able to interview Smart in person, together with her outstanding cast mates and creators in Los Angeles – actress Hannah Einbinder (the down-on-her-luck comedy writer Ava Daniels), actor-creator-showrunner-executive producer-director Paul W. Downs (Jimmy LuSaque, Jr., the manager of Deborah and Ava), and co-creators, co-showrunners, executive producers, and directors Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky.
Jean Smart (Deborah Vance)
Deborah Vance gets her talk show, and this is a big deal.
Yes. It's sort of a bucket list to pretend to be a talk show host.
It's also a bucket list for women in TV and in show business and who have been going through this struggle their whole career. And now you're at the apex, and it looks like you're having a few panic attacks about it and some self-doubts.
She definitely has something. Be careful what you wish for. It's the pressure that gets to her. Definitely.
You've won so many awards for "Hacks" and congrats on the latest round and Emmys and the show, too, Best Comedy Series this year! How is it to play her and get deeper into it? Because we're seeing sides of Deborah, we have not seen in the previous seasons.
I give credit to them for writing for that. It continually amazes me that they are able to find more and more for us and also keep this dynamic going, because that's a lot of the fun for the audience is this relationship and the fact that they've been able to keep that the way they have, because that was my biggest fear after the first season: Now that they're kind of friendly and working together, is that going to be as much fun for the audience to see them butting heads? But it's amazing to me that it continues in the same vein and just gets better and better... And meaner and nastier.
We really care for you and also the way you play Deborah too. I have real empathy for her because I think in many ways, she can't help herself, but she wants to help herself.
No, definitely. There are a lot of characters throughout history who are fun - we love to hate them. So, I don't know, it might be partly that too, but yes, hopefully, you see the part of her that's also a little bit more vulnerable.
Oh, totally. I think this season also we're going to see this whole thing with coyotes and your character, which is fascinating. And they represent an antagonist for her.
Exactly. All of her fears have been turned into this creature who keeps popping up and living in California. They're always this specter out in your yard. So, I thought it was really a clever idea to have that symbolic.
Speaking of California, there's an episode "I Love L.A" and it has an obituary for your house that burned down in the fires, which brought it home in a real way when we're watching the show.
Absolutely. The beautiful mansion that was built in 1930. It's been sitting there and has been touched by fire and 100 years. And it burns. And it was really sad. And we had just finished shooting there, I think the week before or something?
And to envision those beautiful rooms and that beautiful fountain and the back, the yard and the couple who lived there and their dog. They're safe, thank God. But yeah, that was shocking.
Can I ask you about the tone of the show, which I think brilliantly works? Because this could be a souffle that just falls, because it goes from high comedy to really dark, dramatic scenes and things, particularly with Deborah, too. And to balance that is no easy trick. This does it. It's real life. That's what we're seeing.
We've all had that in our own lives. Tragedy and comedy. That's just what life is. So, to be able to do that and to still have the tone of the show be essentially fun and joyous. But then the reality of there's always the flip side of the coin.
There's one scene in episode six where you're living in fear for one of your dogs, and you're chasing around town. You even traipse into the ocean. Is that the real ocean you went into here, or was that a tank in some MGM, old MGM studio where Esther Williams swam or something?
It was a little of each.
What was that like to shoot that kind of scene here?
It was only difficult because of the coat. Because we didn't realize once it got wet, it weighed about 70 pounds. So, I thought, I really don't want to drown in this pool.
You've spent most of your life in and around Hollywood. What has kept you grounded? And I should mention, too, I'm just so happy to hear you're going back to Broadway with a one-woman show this summer, which is exciting. It's going to keep you grounded in a different way.
Who said I was grounded? It's a dreadful thing to say! (laughs) I used to say that, especially when my kids were younger, I just sort of think of myself as a housewife with a really weird job, you know?
But I know certainly that's naive to say that in a way. I know that the outside world, as we put it, the civilian world, they look at our job as being very exciting and sometimes and God knows it is sometimes. No, it's just I think we have kids and a house that keeps you grounded.
So, I was lucky. I was brought up by really wonderful parents. We didn't have much. My dad was a schoolteacher. He worked two jobs, just because he had four kids. And my mom made our clothes. And I didn't feel like I lacked a thing, but we didn't have extras. I'm glad that I was not spoiled. I'm actually very grateful for my childhood. I think everything nice that's happened to me in my adult life, I don't take it for granted.
It's really interesting because this season, both of Jean and Hannah come into power and you have an interesting philosophy. One is a little more tough love and the other is nurturing. In your own careers, how well do you respond to each? What works better for you to get the best out of you?
Jean Smart: I was just going to say it's interesting because I've been talking about this. I have a 16-year-old and he's in the drama department at his school, and he just finished this weekend playing a part in the school musical.
Beautifully, yes, of course - stole the show. I don't know where he got that, I can't imagine. But his teacher can be verbally abusive, and it's very upsetting as a parent, and I don't agree with it either.
As an actor, I've never had that in my experience. Certainly, when I was in school, no one ever spoke to me like that. I don't see how you can possibly get good results out of somebody or have someone be able to work in that environment. I'm the same. Some people probably don't mind it that much. I guess it's sort of the cliche of the crazy directors screaming and yelling or the drama teachers saying you need to suffer for your art. It's like, why?
I don't. I never got that. It's like “Tell us your most private moment. It’ll make you a better actor.” Really? No, I don't think so. Just tell me what to say, thank you. It'll be fine. Just calm down. So that’s that for me. I like warm and cozy.
Hannah Einbinder: I think we're really inherently sensitive people. And I myself am attuned to reading into even the twitch of an eyebrow. I like gentle and supportive. Although we all actually have, a background in athletics, like we've all had coaches. And I think I do like having that sort of coach dynamic a little at times. But I think that can also exist with support.
Most actors are just really sensitive, it is helpful to have someone who understands, especially because these guys are performers as well. Like that's another element of their background. So, I think it helps to have them come from that same place in their direction, which is really great.
Hannah Einbinder (Ava Daniels)
This is a dynamic season. She's really come into her own in really hanging on to this idea that she's the head writer, against all odds with Deborah at every turn. So, talk about Hannah here in moving in this direction and what she's finding and all the things you're going through.
Ava is in a position. Her hand has been forced. A lot of people ask me, “Has Ava turned bad?” No, she has to speak Deborah's language. She still has her core. She still retains that spirit but just has to play ball.
It's been really cool to get to play the adversarial thing. It's obvious when we have to fight, like Lucia calls cut and we're just like [hugging], it's like, I'm sorry. But it is fun to traverse this windy road with the two of them.
Megan Stalter (Kayla)
Your character has a fantastic arc, as they say in business. She's now got her name on the wall with Jimmy and they're managing to work together. And props to Jimmy here for advancing her and seeing her potential, because she's a dynamic personality and really drives it. You play her so well. It's so much fun to watch you over the seasons and particularly this season.
It's so much fun to see the growth of these characters. I tear up when I think about the last season. Jimmy chooses Kayla. She gets her guy. She's finally, "I can't do this without you." And it's romantic. I hope in the next season she gets pregnant. I don't want her to hook up with Jimmy. I want her to get pregnant, and then Jimmy has to take the role of father. I want him to step up as the father. I think Kayla is living her dream in this season, being able to be in some sort of power and having her guy by her side. She's on top of the world.
You give Paul so much more screen time by being so good on this show. You know where you go, he goes.
I think he's given me screen time because Paul is one of the creators of the show. Kayla without Jimmy. She's in jail. She's nothing without him. I think just being with Paul is just the most fun. There are so many times I can barely get through the scene. Every reaction, everything he says, I mean, or Paul will say like, why don't you say this in the next scene? And I'm laughing before the scene even starts. So, Kayla is nothing without Jimmy, and I'm nothing without Paul.
Paul W. Downs (Jimmy Lusaque, Jr., co-creator, co-showrunner, executive producer, director), Lucia Aniello (co-creator, co-showrunner, executive producer, director), Jen Statsky (co-creator, co-showrunner, executive producer, director)
Paul, Lucia, Jen, tell me how this works. How do you come up with these ideas for taking this show into, finally, LA and this dream kind of job in late night.
Paul W. Downs: We have a magic eight ball, and when we have an idea, we ask, is it good? No, we have been building this for a long time. We always knew we wanted Deborah to get her white whale, to get this late-night show. But like with stand-up, we've always said that this is a show about the wig-off moments. The behind-the-curtain moments.
So, there are a lot of behind-the-scenes drama and comedy that happens at a late-night show. So, it was really fun to explore that and also to write what you know as writers writing a comedy show. So, it was easy.
Lucia Aniello: It was a fun, fresh challenge to be able to write the two of them in an office setting so whether they're arguing about coffee makers or whether they're arguing about HR or hiring, it's like it just feels fun to put them in that scenario because that's a scenario the rest of the world knows more than potentially some comedians.
And so, it just felt like a really fun, fresh place in addition to the actual getting a show off the ground. Rather than dealing with the fallout of the blackmail. So, it just was a ton to play with. Why we did end up making ten episodes a season, is we just felt there was so much to play with. Not quite 22, but 10 is still getting back to our roots from season one of that many episodes.
Jen, in one of these episodes, you went back to Vegas because the show is so associated with Vegas, and I understand that's probably the most time you've ever shot in Vegas - this season - ironically, where the show's moved to L.A.
Yeah, that is ironic. From what you were saying about episode four, like this show we have shot, we feel really lucky to have shot in L.A. for four seasons now. It's a testament to our amazing producers and production team that so many people are like, oh, you moved to Vegas for like five months, right? And we're like, no, every season we've only done 1 or 2 days there.
And so, this season, for that third episode was the most time we ever spent in Vegas because we just felt like it was a really fun setting for a writers retreat. It's also Deborah, as she's feeling all this pressure, all the eyeballs, feeling the coyotes coming for her. She would want to retreat a little bit back to her castle where she feels comfortable. But yeah, we spent a week in Vegas. I think that was the total shoot time. It was the most we'd ever spent there.
This is the fourth season. Will there be a fifth?
Paul W. Downs: We don't know anything for sure. What is the future? What is normal? What is not normal?
Jen Statsky: I don't believe so, no. Unless you know something we don't know.
Lucia Aniello: We originally conceived the show to be five seasons in our dreams. Right now, to be able to even make four seasons of a comedy is so rare. So, to be able to make five would be the dream. And that's how we would love to go out. One day at a time. — LA, GMA Integrated News
